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Good morning, neighbors.

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This is Long John with the Party Line once again.

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We're around for midnight to five o'clock, five mornings during the week.

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Saturday mornings and Sunday mornings, we continue through to 5.30.

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Monday mornings, we get started about one.

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Figure that out.

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We come up to about 35 hours of conversation.

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And maybe talk with a lot of interesting people.

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This morning, we have Al Lopman with us insurance broker, J.J.

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Carver Lopman.

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Dollar Relan there, author and lecturer, managed with the Cybernetesis and Frank Edwin.

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This morning, we have Al Lopman with us insurance broker, J.J.

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Carver Lopman.

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Dollar Relan there, author and lecturer, managed with the Cybernetesis and Frank Edwin.

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This morning, we have Al Lopman with us insurance broker, J.J.

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Carver Lopman.

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This morning, we have Al Lopman with us insurance broker, J.J. Carver Lopman.

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This morning, we have Al Lopman with us insurance broker, J.J. Carver Lopman.

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This morning, we have Al Lopman with us insurance broker, J.J.

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Carver Lopman.

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This morning, we have Al Lopman with us insurance broker, J.J.

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Carver Lopman.

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This morning, we have Al Lopman with us insurance broker, J.J.

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Carver Lopman.

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This morning, we have Al Lopman with us insurance broker, J.J.

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Carver Lopman.

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This morning, we have Al Lopman with us insurance broker, J.J.

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Carver Lopman.

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This morning, we have Al Lopman with us insurance broker, J.J.

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Carver Lopman.

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I'm going to be talking about the book, the title of it is Stranger Than Science.

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The title of it is Stranger Than Science, the publisher of the book.

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And I'm going to be talking about the book, the book of the book.

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And I'm going to be talking about the book, the book of the book.

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And I'm going to be talking about the book, the book of the book.

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I'm going to be talking about the book, the title of it is Stranger Than Science, the publisher

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of Lyle Sturd, the author, my guest in the morning, Frank Edwards.

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Usually, I take it after all 25 or 40 minutes of the top of the show, when we go around

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robbing the area on the table.

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But the gentleman seated at mine left, Al Lopman.

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I said, I'm going to read a book about a week or 10 days ago when I told him we were going

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to have Frank Edwards.

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I was very, very excited about this.

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And I said, you mean Frank Edwards?

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My new commentator?

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I said that's right.

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I said, Joe, can I get on the show?

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And he said, this is a man that I've admired for years.

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And I said yes.

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I'll book you.

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to be talking about the power man handles a new show and all like that. I said no, we're

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going to be discussing psychic phenomena. We'll be talking about flying saucers. Oh,

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he said then, you know, this is not the Edwards that I mean. I thought you were going to have

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to follow me, the great commentator. I said, look, this is the man that you're thinking

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of, Frank Edwards. Now, I said, Frank Edwards writes for Fate magazine. Oh, he said, please,

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that's not the Edwards. In other words, what I'm trying to tell you, Frank, is that this

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man, Earl Lottman, has extremely interested in meeting you and listened to you for years,

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but when he said that one possibly believes in some of the flying saucer stars and some

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of these stars about the mediums and the spiritualists and all like that, something happened. In

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other words, the man figured it's something, something, same man.

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I was wondering, would you like to comment on that? Yes, I think this is an understandable

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attitude on his part, because he probably contains me with another Edwards who is on

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another network, Doug Edwards, a very fine commentator. And a lot of people do that.

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There's Doug Edwards and then there's me with Doug Edwards. I think I was going to say

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that understand. Well, I'm going to give you a few minutes to start off. This is the Frank

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Edwards, the man that you've admired for years. And why I feel that there must, that evidently

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Frank Edwards has gone soft or something because he believes in the big saucers is amazing.

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I believe in some of the things, certainly not all of them. And just because you sit around

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here many nights and you figure that for anybody that comes on the show and talks about the

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experience and aspect projection or an experience of seeing the saucer or something like that,

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automatically you label them all coax. And I presume that actually you're labeling Frank

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Edwards as a coax. Oh, what do you mean? I haven't heard a word. You know, I am. You

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know, I'm excited and I can see the thoughts of the guys with science minds. But I am not

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just a huge different network. And Frank Edwards was a news commentator sponsored by the AFL

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and CIO or individually one of the two. Right. Frank Edwards, what I would classify as

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further interpretive analysis of the news, which was brilliant. I mean, I'm trying to make

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up to you right at the beginning. I really felt that way. When represented a viewpoint

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that I thought was the right viewpoint that was subjective, it was different than any other

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brains coming down on the air. It was objective and yet it was subjective from a human point of

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point. Now, there with my relation and excitement, I cannot reconcile Frank for an animal's

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interpretive power to give a news that is as great as yours, but something that is so

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unreal for me, something that represents in most cases such utter nonsense, I just don't

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reconcile with completely. Well, what I'm really asking you, I'm sure is you're really

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putting the question to me, why do I assist in regarding the so called sources of realities?

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Well, I do this because during the 12 years or so that I have been interested in things,

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I've had the reason to change my mind about it. At first I thought they were some development

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of ours. I'm sure there were a lot of other people in these countries that we thought that,

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but as the years went by and funds happened, I realized that there's many other people

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that some things, but most of them are nothing more than conventional objects from under

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unusual circumstances and misconstrued by people who do not recognize them for what they are.

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Well, there is a small percentage of these things that simply cannot be explained away as

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conventional objects. And the effort certainly doesn't regard them as conventional objects

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because it has a qualification if you'd order to shrink them down.

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You don't shrink down hallucinations and you don't shrink down atmospheric discoloration,

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you don't shrink down temperature inversions. These things have to be real and solid.

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I belong to an organization called NYCAP, do you know about it Al? Yes.

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This is headed by Admiral Hilling Cutter who for a long time, had a central intelligence.

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Hilling Cutter always in a position to know what was going on. We also have an organization

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that came with the director, the chairman of the board, was Admiral Hilling Cutter,

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and they just heard this thing before. Right? And the life of NYCAP is controlled.

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Oh yes, T. R. Firstman was Admiral Farney, the father of our guided missile and the man

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who coined the term guided missile. And he liked the rest of us on the board and he said so

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publicly in his opening statement, I was convinced that things came from somewhere in space

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in the space for every hour atmosphere and had been for quite a while and that there were

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works of intelligent beings and were certainly not subject to human control.

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And Admiral Farney said this, not exactly in those works but that's as near as I can remember.

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That was the gist of it. So now the chairman of the board is Admiral Hilling Cutter,

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the former head of central intelligence. We also have on the board Colonel Farney who headed

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one of the Air Force's social research projects. I certainly was in a position to know what

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was known as far as our official research program is concerned.

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So many things have happened in this field. If you are close to it and have been able to

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get at some of the facts in it around the carefully laid censorship signs and the final

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reception and compunition of the existing and bad reporting tools and what do you want to do with that?

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I'm saying that there is something substantial there although we may not know what it is or

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where it comes from and we certainly do not control it. For that reason I don't know what

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the things are and I've never seen one. But I have many friends who are very competent people

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and certainly credible. I know a lot of people who are not friends with me but I know them.

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I regard their opinion very highly. One of them is Dr. James Bugg but the kind of the

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astronomy division at the University of Maryland who has seen the things and have had a really good look at them

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and talked about his standing and airline product and so forth. They have certainly seen something

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and it's something over which we are in no control. But what of a better name we call them flying saucers?

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Well I agree with the Air Force that flying saucers do not exist but unidentified flying objects do exist.

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I don't know what they are going to say but that's why I've been interested in them because in my opinion

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as a newsman, let's get back to what you've said to me, but my opinion as a newsman,

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and in my judgment as a newsman at 36 years, experience in broadcasting around,

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I think that this could be one of the biggest news stories of all time.

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But if we can get the facts out before the public can be, the reality of these things

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and their origin as some of us suspect they are going to be, can be confirmed.

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I think it's a bit early though, I think it's a bit early now, but I think it's about the origin of these things.

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I think.

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I don't have anything?

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Yes, I've been with Dr. Herman Over and with Admiral Farni and others.

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But I think things are probably rather planetary and that I have no idea where they come from

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but I am confident in view of all the evidence that has kind of left about them

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that they certainly do not originate on the earth, that's where they come from, that's why I don't know.

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I can see there in my perception, things are unidentified flying objects.

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I can understand that my point is that I have an interest also.

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I don't believe in an object having a certain sense, something that's probably the interest that's now in it and it's necessary.

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While I'm a victim to this and there's no significant ignorance in these things, I think it's a kind of feminine

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and I don't know why that word, new background, I'm always aggrieved at your acceptance and your alliance.

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I'm afraid of that way.

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I don't even feel any obstacle and mystical.

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Science, Frank, is the eventual answer to most of the claims of life.

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Here it has not yet explained everything.

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Here we have unidentified flying objects, flying objects.

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Now you say we're filming evidence from heaven and we are led to believe that things represent some form of human intelligence from outside the planet.

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We're not going to be the same far right, but some form of intelligence anyway, and human or otherwise.

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I have several questions which are also not one that's not evident from any credible source too.

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Can you explain at the same time Frank, some of the associations of those and those that I characterize in the texts in my book, I definitely do,

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those who believe in forms of mysticism and of cultism which have nothing and shouldn't have anything to do with research and what the process is when I'm not explaining objects.

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What associations trouble me?

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What you do is a large favor with Aladdin and all that you're anxious to get closer to our guests,

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but you're closer to prodding into the microphone.

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It makes it rather difficult for our engineers to keep a steady pace.

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I'm glad you brought science into this because this puts a unique frame of reference where I think I might be able to shed a little light on my own attitude toward the matter.

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All things have been photographed and they have been seen and they have been tracked by radar and the government has issued a book on how to recognize them when you see them on a radar screen,

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how they performed when they came over the city of Washington in numbers on the night of July 19th and 20th of 1952.

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About three nights later they were back again, but then on the night of August 13th, 1952, according to this government book which I have in my possession,

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there were 68 of them over Washington at one time and the book was issued for the guidance of control tower and men and other men how to recognize the things and how to know what you were seeing when you saw them.

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Now to those who haven't seen them, let me say that these things are fully as real as cosmic rays.

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I've never seen one of them either, but I have seen the tracks that they made when they were photographed.

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I've also seen pictures of these things when they had been photographed.

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So they are at least as real as cosmic rays having for that reason they constitute another thing that we know exists but which we certainly do not fully understand.

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People sometimes ask me, why do you believe the flying saucers?

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Well, that's a rather broad question.

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What do they mean by believing them?

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I think that it's like this.

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I feel this way about it.

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I feel that this is like the two ghosts.

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One is sitting on the cemetery wall one night watching the airplanes go over and one ghost said to the other, say, do you believe in people?

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And the problem goes ahead and been training around themselves but there was a reason to believe that maybe something was out there.

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I'm not being smart actually about this Al.

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I'm not trying to sell anybody on flying saucers.

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I don't care where anybody believes it, says things that exist or not.

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I believe it.

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The government believes it.

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The Air Force believes it.

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A lot of scientists believe it.

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If a lot of people don't, they want to believe it.

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It's all right with me.

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As I said a while ago, I'm interested in it because I think, but if my suspicions, I have nothing more than suspicions.

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I don't know where they come from.

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But if my suspicions are true, then the story of these unidentified flying objects certainly constitutes a major news story.

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Well, they would constitute a major news story if there were some evidence to back up your suspicions.

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Now, I cannot...

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What do you consider evidence?

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Oh, I can tell you what I consider evidence, Frank.

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And I've stated this several times.

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I want a credible source.

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And by a credible source, I will accept any scientific body who are objective.

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And I'm sorry to say this, but this is all a price to me.

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And it's not an income newsman because both the main gauges are full of wishful dramatic.

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They're part of their occupational pursuit.

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I'm not angry at them, but it is so.

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I want a credible scientific source.

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A university, somebody, who can be accepted as an objective person and a person with a background in their knowledge.

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But tell me, there is some form of scientific evidence, and here we will give it to you.

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That's an important planetary source, and class is unsighted over the earth.

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Thank you. I'm glad you brought that up because I'll be able to answer your question.

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On about seven o'clock on the morning of June the 30th, 1908, there was a great ball of fire that came in over the Yemisee River in Siberia.

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The thing exploded.

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It was a tremendous blast. It was so great that it was recorded all around the world.

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They realized that it was some great explosion, some tremendous shock,

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but it could not have been an earthquake because it possessed one of the characteristics of an earthquake.

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And the universities and the various laboratories and observatories that recorded this

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realized that it was a shock, and they were able to locate it reasonably well, but they were not able to identify it.

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Well, in 1908, there was very little understanding of atomic reactions.

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This is well known.

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So it was night there because of World War I and the great disruption that took place in Russia.

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So in 1927, before a scientific body got to the scene of the so-called Tungesta meteorite,

211
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they all assumed, for a lot of anything else to assume, that this was a great meteorite that had struck there.

212
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They discovered a very strange thing about it.

213
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But for many miles around the scene of this blast, the trees were all swept down flat.

214
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They were brushed down against the ground.

215
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They were charred on the side facing the center of the blast.

216
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In my book, if I may be permitted to stick in a commercial here,

217
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,480
my book of strands is in science.

218
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:50,480
There is an article on this covering it in considerable detail.

219
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And the blast was a very tremendous explosion of some sort.

220
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If it had been a meteorite, there would have been some sort of meteoritic crater there.

221
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But there was no crater.

222
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There was only this great mass of charred forest spreading for miles away from the center of the blast.

223
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This puzzled the scientists who went there.

224
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But they had nothing.

225
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:19,480
They had no yardstick by which to figure what this thing could have been.

226
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When we exploded our atomic bomb at Hiroshima,

227
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actually the Russians were interested in it,

228
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so they sent a party over there and a member of the party was Dr. Alexander Kuzinsel.

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That was also a member of the various scientific expeditions which had been

230
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for the same as the Tungusco meteorite as it was known, as full as the Death Wing Records.

231
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When he was at Hiroshima, he noticed a peculiarity.

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Right under the so-called cone of the blast, directly under the point where the bomb had exploded,

233
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the tops of the trees were snapped off and they hung down.

234
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And the limbs on the trees were stripped and hanging down.

235
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They stripped down the trunk.

236
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,480
This was a very odd looking thing.

237
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And out away from the center of the blast, the trees were flattened out in the brice to where it was charred

238
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on the side toward the blast itself.

239
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Suddenly it dawned on him that the only other place that he'd ever seen a thing like this

240
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was at the Tungusco meteorite.

241
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So he and his colleagues, again comparing notes, and they went back

242
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and they got the Soviet government to organize another expedition, actually to organize fun.

243
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They went up there with radiation gear and they discovered that they could trace out a cone of radiation

244
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,480
directly under, directly in the center of the blast.

245
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,480
Just as they added Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

246
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,480
Now they had all the radiation characteristics of this.

247
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They also found some bits of alloyed metal around the edge of the cone of the blast.

248
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And then when they went back and examined the eyewitness reports,

249
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they found that there was the typical mushroom cloud.

250
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,480
Now that the people who went into this area died of a strange malady.

251
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,480
They went back and they were able to exclude many of them.

252
00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:01,480
And they all showed signs of excessive radioactivity in the bones.

253
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:06,480
So obviously there had been some sort of a powerful radioactive performance there.

254
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:11,480
And after the free and Russian expedition had been up there,

255
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,480
I will find only front page of the New York Times for October the 4th.

256
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,480
A story there which is the third one that has been published on this.

257
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:24,480
But this was an atomic power spaceship that weighed many thousands of tons.

258
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:29,480
That for some reason it was trying to make an emergency landing when it blew up.

259
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:34,480
But now the 21 and 22 times miles are brought out what is known in the books.

260
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:41,480
As a term just a meteorite, but actually it was a spaceship and atomic power went at that.

261
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:42,480
Ben?

262
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:48,480
I read the news story in the Times that they were quoting Russian scientists.

263
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,480
This was at the Times version.

264
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,480
They were quoting Russian scientists.

265
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,480
But one of the possible explanations that...

266
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,480
Also we have two.

267
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:06,480
One we go, it might have been a spaceship, the other one might have been some radioacted explosion of unknown origin from outside the Earth.

268
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,480
Let me pursue that.

269
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,480
Also there was something very interesting in the article two.

270
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:19,480
Another Russian scientist about this theory that the two moons of Mars are really artificial satellites

271
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put up the orbit thousands of years ago by people who had lived on Mars and tried to escape.

272
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,480
Valerie sent me an old pair a moment ago.

273
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:40,480
And I think we saw the Times reported it saying that the Russians said it may have been a spaceship.

274
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:41,480
Yes.

275
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:56,480
In his group reported to the Russian Academy of Science that all the evidence was conclusive, but it was a spaceship and that they found these alloyed metals.

276
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:02,480
So the report, what in the Times said that the implication was that they were assuming that it was a spaceship?

277
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,480
They didn't say it was a spaceship.

278
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,480
Let me explain what happened on this thing.

279
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:16,480
This was a different explanation and the ones who are quoted in the Times are the fellows who denied that Kuzentsev and his group reported that it was a spaceship.

280
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Academy of Science meeting over there.

281
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:26,480
These fellows denied that such that it was, but when they went over there and made their own investigation, they changed their tune completely.

282
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:27,480
They say, well, maybe it was.

283
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,480
This is quite a change on their part.

284
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,480
It's also supposed to be...

285
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,480
The Times said it was not mentioned in that Times article.

286
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,480
This was the first...

287
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:36,480
This was the first...

288
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:37,480
This was the first...

289
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,480
This was supposed to be a certain amount of residual radioactivity in the area.

290
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:47,480
This was perceived by what would have been ground zero at a nuclear blast and then...

291
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,480
It was a cone of the blast directly under the blast.

292
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,480
So don't misunderstand me.

293
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:57,480
I'm not trying to feed or combine any scientific information because I showed...

294
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,480
You would like to know the sum of...

295
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:00,480
I have to rely.

296
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,480
Right.

297
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:07,480
Now you've all picked certain things, but I use the word something because that's all it means to me.

298
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,480
Here are a group of Russian scientists and their accomplishments incidentally or something...

299
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,480
What you might not...

300
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,480
...avay or avoid.

301
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:16,480
They're indeed accomplished.

302
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:21,480
However, there's still, it seems to me, a theory...

303
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,480
...expounded by some Russian scientists which have some validity and one must look up.

304
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,480
But nothing more at the moment than a theory.

305
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:34,480
Now, speaking of a layperson and one who is interested in the news events of the day...

306
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:39,480
I have one more question to pursue from a scientific viewpoint.

307
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:47,480
Here is a subject of unbelievable, well important, isn't even a proper word.

308
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:48,480
I can't think of one.

309
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:49,480
The impact is enormous.

310
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,480
I can think of nothing in my lifetime.

311
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:58,480
But if it were so, if it were to nothing in my lifetime of greater importance or drama...

312
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:04,480
...than the possibility of life in other planets and advanced life or some form of intelligence anyway...

313
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,480
...sending crap to the surface.

314
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:13,480
Nothing, it seems to me, including the rumors which went through which credit boys buy.

315
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:18,480
Now, following that in agreement with me, I now ask you one more question.

316
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:24,480
Are there any scientists of repeat or any scientists of repeat?

317
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:31,480
For today, the uriology has taken this matter seriously and are engaging and valid.

318
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,480
I'd better use a word credible research.

319
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,480
Well, let me answer you in two sections.

320
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:42,480
One, do you consider Dr. Berman over as a scientist of repeat?

321
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:49,480
I mean, I've got to have your answers so that I'll know what you're talking about.

322
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:56,480
The reason I smiled was never in front of Dr. Obert, but it was an embarrassment at my own ignorance.

323
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:57,480
I don't know the matter.

324
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,480
Dr. Berman Obert is the father of modern rocket science.

325
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,480
He lived in Germany for many years.

326
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,480
He was the man who organized rocket research in Germany.

327
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:13,480
He lived in Germany and organized the rocket-summed-build-hitners rockets for him.

328
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:19,480
He has written many books on space travel and I'd say that next to Sikopsky, the Russian,

329
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:25,480
he is probably one of the total outstanding women the Russians have died of.

330
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,480
That's two years ago.

331
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:32,480
But Obert has just gone back to Germany after five years at Redstone Arsenal down here.

332
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:38,480
Obert headed a German government research in this, which was actually a cooperative effort

333
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:44,480
between Scandinavian countries and the Holland and Belgium and West Germany,

334
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:50,480
looking into these so-called flying software UFOs.

335
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,480
1954, when he concluded this program for him,

336
00:24:53,480 --> 00:25:00,480
he held a press conference at which he said that his opinion of himself and his colleagues

337
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,480
and their own opinions were inter-pandestrian origin

338
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,480
that they probably did not originate in our galaxy

339
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,480
and that they were operated by intelligent beings of a very high order

340
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,480
and were probably propelled by distorting the gravitational field.

341
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:23,480
But just completed that in February of 1948 when he went back to Germany.

342
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:33,480
I don't think it would be unfair to say that the opinion of the scientific community about Dr. Hans Obert

343
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:40,480
is much the same as what was the opinion told about Nikolai Keshler,

344
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:47,480
because he was a man of undoubted genius who in the later years of his life entertained some strange ideas.

345
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,480
Of course, anyone who flies in the face of conventions, entertainings, strange ideas,

346
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,480
and that was true of Einstein, it was also true of...

347
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,480
My wording was supposed to be the lies.

348
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,480
Yeah, sure.

349
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:07,480
But I had known that we're going to ask this question because I could have brought a little bit later,

350
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:12,480
which I cannot use publicly, but which I mentioned in one of my books.

351
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:17,480
I shot it to Willy Lay one night on a program called Author, Reaches the Credit to TV Show

352
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:18,480
and we were...

353
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,480
Tingle and I were on every one of the major Tingle's books

354
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:26,480
and the critic was Willy Lay, who was certainly a very eminent man of his field.

355
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:31,480
And we were to be on a 20-station TV network

356
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:36,480
and without any warning, whatever, we were cut down to one station that night.

357
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,480
And maybe it was just half an hour past, but that's beside the point.

358
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,480
What happened was that I was able to show Mr. Lay in the middle of the program

359
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,480
a letter signed by a group of eminent government physicists

360
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,480
who are engaged in work for the United States government.

361
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:57,480
And they said in this letter that after evaluating the evidence and materials submitted to them

362
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:02,480
over a period of years, they were convinced that things, objects were operated by intelligent beings

363
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,480
in a very high order and were not correctly noted.

364
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,480
And I had the letter.

365
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,480
Let me interrupt here for a moment to take care of some business

366
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,480
and then we'll be back with our guests in a few minutes.

367
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,480
I had a question, Frank, was not answered.

368
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,480
Well, in a way, just a moment I want to introduce you to guests.

369
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,480
I'll give you a channel, you know.

370
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:31,480
Also, I think at this time, I should remind our listeners that tomorrow night,

371
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,480
or rather tonight, I'm sure we're in the sun already,

372
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,480
tonight at 8.15 p.m. at the Philosophical Research Center

373
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,480
and that's located at 211 West 57th Street in New York.

374
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,480
I'll repeat that in a moment if you want to get a pencil and paper to make a note of it.

375
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:52,480
Valerie Landier will deliver a lecture on the subject of the untold secrets of the flying saucers.

376
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,480
It's ideal for a holiday gift to get some of these and send them to the...

377
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:03,480
And outside of the question of flying saucers from other planets,

378
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:08,480
I was very...plans to find that in your new book, Stranger Than Science,

379
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:14,480
you have a record of a man who almost, let me say this, was 1959

380
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,480
and that was somewhere about 1880s or so, and John Keely,

381
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:26,480
had a built-in machine, a device which achieved physical levitation

382
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,480
and it was quite some time before the turn of the 20th century.

383
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,480
Could you tell us something about John Keely?

384
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,480
John Warrell Keely was a very unusual fellow.

385
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:41,480
He was a musician and a magician and he was an inventor

386
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:47,480
and he seemed to be a very conscientious man in the national psychopedia of his day.

387
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,480
He gave him a very fine biographical sketch in there

388
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,480
and if John Keely was a crook, no one was ever able to prove it

389
00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:00,480
and certainly some of the best scientists of his time tried to expose him

390
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,480
and he gave some of them his cooperation with the consent of the stockholders

391
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:09,480
but at least one of them who was sent by the stockholders to examine Keely's invention

392
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,480
said that he did not fully understand it

393
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:18,480
but he had seen enough to convince him that Keely's invention was everything that he said it was.

394
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:27,480
What Keely did was to build a machine and he called it a long technical, compound technical name

395
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,480
which didn't mean much to me and possibly didn't mean much to him

396
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,480
because I have a feeling that perhaps Keely didn't understand what he had either

397
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,480
but this machine was one that had tremendous power

398
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:44,480
and he demonstrated it many times from stockholders into various other groups

399
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:49,480
and it drove, for one thing, it drove a lead ball through an oak plank

400
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,480
a foot-to-feet which nothing else in his time could do

401
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,480
it bent stung rails as though they were putty

402
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,480
and there was not another machine that existed in that day that could do that

403
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:08,480
and it performed various things but it never got to the point under his control or development

404
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,480
where he felt like it could be safely be put out on the market

405
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,480
or put to practical use although the demonstrations were always very impressive

406
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:23,480
after Keely died, we found a huge tank of compressed air

407
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:29,480
and when Keely died, we found a huge tank of compressed air in the basement of his own

408
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,480
but there was nothing new about that really except to the reporters

409
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:39,480
because Keely had shown that stockholders and several hundred people the tank of air

410
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:44,480
was connected with the machine only by some relatively thin and wheat brass pipe

411
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,480
so it couldn't have carried very much pressure

412
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,480
certainly couldn't have caused the machine to do what the machine obviously did

413
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,480
time after time in the presence of many witnesses

414
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,480
Well you will have a thin outlet to a huge tank of compressed air

415
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,480
you can build up tremendous pressure on that limited area

416
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:06,480
Well I'm quoting these men who investigated for the I-R-H stockholders after Keely's death

417
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:13,480
and they said that it was not possible for him to have used the air in this cylinder

418
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:18,480
at enough pressure to have made the machine perform as it did

419
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:25,480
Well maybe Keely was an advance of the knowledge of hydrologists at this time

420
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,480
I don't think there was any knowledge involved

421
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,480
Well I would compress that

422
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:36,480
Oh I agree but what did he explain that his machines were anti-gravity?

423
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:42,480
No, he according to the explanation that I found in my research on Keely

424
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:47,480
probably hinted that this was some sort of an atomic disintegration process

425
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,480
but he called it by a vacual pressure

426
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,480
but already do you know what they named for it?

427
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:55,480
I forgot his name

428
00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:00,480
I confess that I had done a good deal of research into Keely's work

429
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,480
but this was a couple of years ago

430
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,480
and I haven't had contact with the work

431
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,480
there was one volume of work in just Keely's work

432
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,480
that I was supposed to get

433
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,480
and there was a very fascinating woman by the name of Natasha Rundover

434
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:22,480
who actually came to that old bookshop in New York City some time ago

435
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,480
that book had a good deal of mathematical analysis of the Keely motor

436
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:33,480
and Mr. Keely was not quite as illiterate or ignorant as his attackers claim he was

437
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:38,480
and in effect what he was doing was using sympathetic vibrations

438
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,480
focused to the center of a sphere to achieve certain effects

439
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:50,480
and then being a musician and having done a good deal of experiments in rib vibrations

440
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,480
he apparently hit on something that we're just beginning to hit again

441
00:32:54,480 --> 00:33:01,480
and the proof of it of course was that he did accomplish these very strange results in his laboratories

442
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:08,480
which types of compressed air in the basement could never accomplish no matter how efficiently they were built

443
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,480
and as I recall now I examined one of Keely's machines

444
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,480
which is in the city of Philadelphia and it is a new work

445
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:23,480
a marvelous example, it's an advanced case so I don't know

446
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,480
a marvelous example of the tourmakers art in any case

447
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:36,480
and I do recall too that he had this tremendously heavy machinery in his laboratories

448
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,480
but occasionally it was found in another part of the room

449
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,480
and there was no physical means of transporting that weight around

450
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,480
and of course no one really knows how Keely thought this stuff shifted around

451
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,480
from one part of the building to the other

452
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:54,480
but it was a very fascinating story, I spent quite a bit of time in research on it

453
00:33:54,480 --> 00:34:02,480
I spent several years ago and I distinctly remember that he didn't seem to be able to describe

454
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:10,480
the operations of the machine in terms of the scientific knowledge of his time

455
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:16,480
because he seemed to be far ahead of his time but he did the best he could with this long-winded name for it

456
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:23,480
but he did say that there was some sort of what he called an atomic disintegration process

457
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:30,480
but he said he thought it needed a great deal more study and research before it could be safely put to use

458
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:36,480
I remember one other thing that Keely did which sounds very amusing, it sounds almost ridiculous

459
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:44,480
but if you realize that the presence of atomic cars operating because a couple of little particles

460
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:49,480
start a spark that keeps sparking more and more sparks through the whole elusive stuff

461
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:55,480
but the thing isn't quite as strange as it sounds but Keely used to pick up his lorry

462
00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:03,480
and if I just played one note on the lorry and this great big metallic sphere would suddenly start to spin

463
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:10,480
and it would go on spinning for days just as a result of this one sound that he produced on his lorry

464
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:17,480
I was wondering Frank, I've given us some ideas about Keely

465
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:22,480
I was wondering if you had any opinions about Otis Tent Car, does that name ring the bell with you?

466
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:27,480
Well I remember that when I was on the program here before John's 20 years ago

467
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:32,480
I got a telegram from Mr. Otis Car who was named I believe in Baltimore

468
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:37,480
I wanted me to come up there and see an anti-gravity machine that he said he had built

469
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,480
I couldn't go and I really don't know anything about him other than that

470
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,480
other than a few little stories that I've seen about him on the news wires from time to time

471
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:50,480
Personally I don't know anything about him except that I do know that he's made these claims from time to time

472
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:56,480
and that there have been some skeptics and felt that perhaps some is overstating his case

473
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:03,480
I went out to Oklahoma City for the launching and naturally they didn't even take it out of the warehouse

474
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,480
for some reason, the mercury leak or something they claimed later

475
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,480
and that was just about the end of it at least temporarily anyway

476
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,480
but we have just some sort of a machine that holds a beautiful thing

477
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,480
I'll bring you a six foot prototype model

478
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,480
I'm not talking about the anti-gravity machine

479
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,480
I'm not talking about the OTC circuit or a craft

480
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:31,480
the prototype model of the craft that he had hoped to be able to go to the military

481
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,480
I didn't do it in the same time as you did, you know what you did

482
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,480
and that's why we went out, we went out to Oklahoma City

483
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,480
about, we were there for April 19th

484
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,480
that was the day it was to be launched

485
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,480
it's a beautiful contraption

486
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,480
and it looks great

487
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,480
I'm not a scientist, I'm not mechanically inclined

488
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,480
so I couldn't tell you whether there's a possibility that it could go up or not

489
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,480
I do know this

490
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,480
which may have been window dressing

491
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,480
but it seems that they had a little difficulty with the

492
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:09,480
what is the department that has to do with aviation, not FCC

493
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,480
CAB is that it?

494
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,480
well, the office

495
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,480
probably one of the ones you'll see in the industry, even the others

496
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,480
one of the offices in Oklahoma City

497
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:26,480
one of the officials of the department that would handle these things

498
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,480
made them purchase a winch

499
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:34,480
and 400 feet of nylon cord

500
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,480
before they could launch this

501
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,480
so it wouldn't get out of control

502
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,480
because I gather from this

503
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,480
that the government thought that there's a possibility that this would go up higher

504
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,480
they would lose control over

505
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:53,480
and it may cause an accident in some other part of the country

506
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,480
John, I'd say you're a very conventional person

507
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,480
that's a customary move in these cases

508
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,480
I see the 400 feet of nylon cord

509
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,480
yes, I mean, and you saw it

510
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,480
it was outside the room

511
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,480
Ben, I'll even show you if you're standing next to it

512
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,480
I'll show you the photograph

513
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,480
so if you're asking me whether you want him with a line on it

514
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,480
I would eventually say there was

515
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,480
but I'm not in a position, I didn't actually measure

516
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,480
but there was a winch there

517
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,480
and this was a big piece of big hunk of iron

518
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,480
and the winch should have been above it

519
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,480
they have a government there for him to buy this winch

520
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:38,480
as I imagine if Otis T. Carr announced that he was going to go through his plans on December 7th

521
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,480
the flight of the moon

522
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,480
I imagine also the government would ask him to file a flight plan

523
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,480
but that doesn't mean they'd seriously expect him to do it

524
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,480
they just expect him to go through the regular

525
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,480
and the regular morale that are attendant upon all these things

526
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,480
we don't want to spend a lot of time on that

527
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,480
I was taking a statement here about this

528
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,480
I just mentioned about the flight plan for the moon

529
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,480
I had a briefing down in Washington the other day

530
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,480
about top scientists

531
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,480
and this devotion, a lot of time to studying

532
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,480
Russian scientific developments

533
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,480
and he works closely with Scandinavian

534
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,480
and other intelligence show that's over there

535
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,480
but points out that at the time the Russians hit the moon

536
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,480
the Ivan's problem was relatively simple

537
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,480
to hit the moon you're much simpler than as you know

538
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,480
actually orbiting the thing or raising it

539
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,480
and making pictures of transmitting them by television

540
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,480
but exactly the right thing in the right time and back

541
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,480
as I said since the Russians did not have

542
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,480
a fantastically good equipment

543
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,480
at the time they hit the moon obviously

544
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,480
this means that they would have had to have built

545
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:53,480
all this wonderfully intricate and responsive

546
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,480
from here between the time they hit the moon

547
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,480
and the time they sent an outfit around it

548
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,480
the photograph that developed the film

549
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,480
that sent back the pictures by television

550
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,480
and this has led any scientist to suspect

551
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,480
so this man told me that the Russians actually sacrificed a man

552
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:19,480
in this thing in order to have some responsive method

553
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,480
of developing the film, of aiming the thing

554
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,480
and sending back the pictures at exactly the time they wanted

555
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,480
I know that they have tried on three occasions

556
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,480
to send the space just up and back

557
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,480
and we know that they got him back twice

558
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,480
what happened to the photograph we don't know

559
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,480
and I had a phone call

560
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:41,480
how do we know?

561
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,480
intelligence would pull me up

562
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,480
I had a phone call during the past week

563
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,480
during the daytime I was in my office there

564
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,480
and somebody called me up

565
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:51,480
they gave me their name

566
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:52,480
to be very honest with you

567
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,480
I didn't even make a notation of the name

568
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,480
but the name didn't mean a thing to me

569
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,480
I was not impressed maybe the man

570
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,480
was somebody well known in his particular profession

571
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,480
and I must admit this

572
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,480
that the man sounded like a very intelligent man

573
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,480
and I don't think he was trying to kid or joke around

574
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,480
I think that he really believed it

575
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,480
he told me that he had information

576
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,480
he didn't want to be on the show or anything

577
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,480
but the Russians have 12 people on the moon

578
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,480
and have had for over a period of three months

579
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,480
this I have a question

580
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:32,480
but I know this from other sources

581
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,480
about 300 dental training has asked us

582
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,480
and the 27 of them are women

583
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,480
their schedule calls for sending

584
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,480
two men and two women to the moon

585
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,480
and they do not expect to get the first part back

586
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,480
but in other words they're going to send them

587
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,480
they will be there

588
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,480
they will be volunteers

589
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,480
they will not expect to get back well

590
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,480
it's not beyond their bounds of reason

591
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,480
to tell you that some patriotic Russian

592
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,480
member of the same group of astronauts

593
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,480
may have been willing to sacrifice himself

594
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,480
for this great scientific theory

595
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,480
which they unquestively got

596
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,480
by beating us to the punch on this

597
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,480
why is we at the moment talking about the Russians

598
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,480
why we are the Iranian guys

599
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,480
I will give you the thinking of our scientists

600
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,480
but this is true of most of the moon

601
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,480
at the top or bottom of the moon

602
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,480
where the rays strike at a different angle

603
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,480
the temperature exchange will not be as great

604
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,480
but will be as it is at the poles of the earth

605
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,480
for example of course it wouldn't be that cold

606
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,480
but it would not be boiling hot either

607
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:49,480
we estimate that by our people digging in

608
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,480
or finding themselves, recover of some sort

609
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,480
that they can survive there for quite a while

610
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,480
of course they'd have to take their oxygen with them in their water

611
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,480
I'd just like to say I don't know who you spoke to

612
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,480
with Washington and what intelligence reports he had access to

613
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,480
but that's quite true

614
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,480
it's easier to

615
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,480
affect the moon there is the orbit around it

616
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,480
this is like saying it's easier to build an atom bomb

617
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,480
an H-bomb, it's still a monumental task

618
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,480
but as far as sacrificing a man

619
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,480
so they could have someone to develop a film and take pictures

620
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,480
that sounds to me to be somewhat wishful thinking

621
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,480
on the part of a man who said it

622
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,480
because actually in a condition such as being in orbit around the moon

623
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,480
automatic instruments to take pictures

624
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,480
and transmit them back to the earth

625
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,480
are of higher competence than any man who was sitting in a space

626
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,480
or orbiting around the moon

627
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,480
because the man would be practically worthless

628
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,480
whereas the instruments wouldn't be bothered at all

629
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,480
the idea of putting a man into orbit is something of an achievement

630
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,480
in itself but the idea of doing it because the equipment isn't good enough

631
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,480
this sounds rather far-fetched

632
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,480
if you didn't have the appointment to do it

633
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,480
but you had the man who could do it

634
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,480
and you were really rushed to get it done

635
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,480
what would you do?

636
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:19,480
well if you have equipment that is capable of monitoring a flight

637
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,480
and you can do it and put it in orbit around the moon

638
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,480
you have the auxiliary equipment that would process

639
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,480
after which would take a picture of the far side of the moon

640
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,480
and to transmit it back to the earth

641
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,480
the process, this kind of equipment is not...

642
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,480
do they have any though that would put one in orbit around the moon?

643
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,480
why not? I've done it before

644
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,480
there are two views about Russian scientists and science

645
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,480
which is practically hysterical as per prevalent in this country

646
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,480
one is that there are a bunch of ignorant engineers

647
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:55,480
who have changed their performances through sheer luck

648
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,480
and they make 10,000 failures and they only let us know about the success

649
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,480
it's a completely idiotic view

650
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,480
but other views that they are supermen who just sit around

651
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,480
and they come out with this fantastic achievement

652
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,480
that we're 10,000 years behind and it's also a ridiculous view

653
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,480
but it has to be just as good and as bad as we are

654
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,480
I think you're absolutely right

655
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,480
but I think that's the thinking of these scientists

656
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,480
which is who this man refers

657
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,480
and I think that because they felt that the Russians were only mortalling

658
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,480
that they didn't have this gear a short time ago

659
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,480
they probably did not have it at the time that they...

660
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,480
I mean the picture is in the top

661
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,480
actually over 70 chapters in this book

662
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,480
and the price of it is 4.95

663
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,480
it's published by Lyle Stewart

664
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:45,480
but there's a black paper jacket on it

665
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,480
with sort of a sharp, close-brained printing

666
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,480
and it's a fantastic book

667
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,480
and I know that you want to own a copy

668
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,480
Frank is kind enough to join us this morning

669
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,480
to give us some of his opinions about things

670
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,480
and also to tell us about some of the stories I love it

671
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,480
Frank, I have to come back to the original opening of June

672
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,480
I still have no plausible explanations for you

673
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,480
I don't

674
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,480
but back then again

675
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:13,480
I said it sincerely

676
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,480
it was impressive to me

677
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,480
I told you, I wasn't sincere

678
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:18,480
but a fan of yours for years

679
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,480
you're news reporting to me

680
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,480
represents rationality

681
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,480
interpretive powers, etc

682
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,480
Coming back again

683
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,480
from the work of these days

684
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,480
the foreign sources which we found around for a bit

685
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,480
I started to say a little earlier than I'd asked you a question

686
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:38,480
the audience Frank

687
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,480
but I say among many who are in the foreign source of fear

688
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,480
I say they're believers

689
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,480
their audience would be...

690
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,480
would be...

691
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,480
I am not calling names at the moment

692
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,480
I went to some others who underpinned this program

693
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:55,480
and I've done it before

694
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,480
but I meant to find the purpose

695
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,480
so I was very uncharacteristic to believe it

696
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,480
I'm asking a question

697
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,480
I've been the occult and the mystic

698
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,480
but Frank merely and truly

699
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:10,480
were in many things alike

700
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,480
or mentally explained

701
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,480
but Frank in himself

702
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:19,480
have also found explanations for what some people afford

703
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,480
the mystical or occult for science is explaining you

704
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,480
would you please explain to me

705
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,480
the ways between those who have

706
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,480
what I think might be a

707
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:35,480
valid scientific survey of unidentified science objects

708
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,480
but then there are ways for those who believe in mysticism

709
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,480
and occultism which are known out of our own indication

710
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,480
of the use of human-lit-agated answers

711
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,480
Well I can't explain what you call the alliance

712
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:50,480
between these people

713
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:51,480
because I'm not a part of it

714
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,480
and I don't know anything about it

715
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,480
I am interested as I said to you a while ago

716
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,480
in the subject of these unidentified flying objects

717
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,480
and I'm calling them by the same name

718
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,480
that the United States government calls them

719
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,480
and they've spent tremendous amounts of money

720
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,480
investigating them

721
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,480
by government thinks that they're real

722
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:11,480
Please explain to me

723
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:12,480
I don't mean to be rude

724
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,480
but they're asking a different question

725
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,480
and they're interested

726
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:17,480
and this goes to your book

727
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,480
which I did wonderful reading again

728
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,480
and I read it and enjoyed it

729
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,480
but if you offered it

730
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,480
if you offered it as just interest

731
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,480
but everything you're doing in here seems to imply

732
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,480
look here are amazing things

733
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,480
here are things that happen

734
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,480
here is proof of mystical and occult forces

735
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,480
now I'm questioning you on this Frank

736
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,480
Who are you a bully for this?

737
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,480
Well I am simply reporting

738
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,480
I'm not explaining because I can't explain

739
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,480
science can't explain the things that are in that book

740
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,480
science has not been able to explain them

741
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,480
that's why they're all open-ended articles

742
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:58,480
there's no explanation for them

743
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,480
in the light of conventional science

744
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,480
there are great many things that science does not know

745
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,480
we know that we've only had organized science

746
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,480
for about 75 years

747
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,480
science has made tremendous strides

748
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,480
in that period of time

749
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,480
but actually we know that we've hardly scratched the surface

750
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,480
and the things that are being brought out

751
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,480
every few months each year

752
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,480
and the thing that I have done in this book

753
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,480
is to print in there

754
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,480
to report in there

755
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,480
documented instances

756
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,480
for which we have no explanation

757
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,480
but for which we have proof that they happen

758
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,480
Now we've discussed the first room

759
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,480
which is the mystery of David Lane

760
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,480
Yes sir I'd be glad to go there

761
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,480
as far as I can which is as far as science can go

762
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,480
David Lane disappeared

763
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:54,480
just to put it in the cap so this is a period of September 23, 1880

764
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,480
David Lane disappeared literally

765
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,480
at a matter of seconds in the full view

766
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,480
of some members of his family

767
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,480
and some friends that they totally don't know

768
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,480
There was a judge

769
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,480
I am the judge's brother who was an attorney

770
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,480
here at the time

771
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:12,480
I have some questions

772
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,480
One

773
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,480
What is the documentary evidence of this particular incident?

774
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,480
I've got the documentary evidence on this

775
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,480
from the county records

776
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,480
of Gallupton, Tennessee

777
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,480
from the records in the state house

778
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,480
from Tennessee

779
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,480
I've got a few men down there to pull this ground

780
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,480
to say if he could have gone into some hole

781
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,480
and also from the statements made by this judge

782
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,480
and by his brother

783
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,480
and by the family of the man who disappeared

784
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:45,480
Now this man's case was never solved

785
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,480
because there was no solution to it

786
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,480
he is still listed as missing

787
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,480
Frank I believe that the man disappeared of course

788
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,480
and I'm trying to say it literally badly

789
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,480
that by any chance you're fabricating in the book

790
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,480
you are relating stories as a news reporter

791
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,480
that you have checked

792
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,480
that they allegedly happened

793
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,480
I'm going a little deeper than that

794
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,480
I believe that somebody told the story

795
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,480
that David Lang, that there was a David Lang

796
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,480
that somebody told the story that he disappeared

797
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,480
and he viewed five people

798
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,480
No question about that

799
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,480
I'm not going to point anything as to your reporting of it

800
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:23,480
but the question I'm asking

801
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,480
what documentary evidence exists of any

802
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,480
that these people didn't do a little dreaming

803
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:30,480
and tell a story

804
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,480
has there been any evidence at all that this literally happened

805
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,480
If there was the state of Tennessee couldn't find it

806
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,480
at the time it happened

807
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,480
or in the subsequent years

808
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,480
Now in your news reporting and your career

809
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,480
have you not come across stories Frank

810
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,480
on where people relate almost incredible events

811
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:52,480
but then upon investigation

812
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,480
it is found that the relation of these events

813
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,480
either occurred somewhere in the deep recesses of their minds

814
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,480
or for their elaboration

815
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,480
or a little more practical purpose

816
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,480
where to cover up some true story

817
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,480
they made up some fantastic story

818
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,480
Oh yes, yes

819
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,480
Now I'm going to conjecture

820
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,480
of possibly a silly hypothesis

821
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,480
but the story of David Lang, my own mind

822
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:23,480
is trying to seek an explanation

823
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,480
a non-scientific mind

824
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,480
but a non-believer in anything

825
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,480
and the explanation I came up with

826
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,480
was that David Lang got tired of a true wife

827
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:33,480
and disappeared

828
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,480
her pride was hurt

829
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:36,480
terribly hurt

830
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:37,480
she was left with two children

831
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,480
and in collusion with a couple of friends

832
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:41,480
made up a fantastic story

833
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,480
go disproved it

834
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,480
Now there's documentary evidence that she went to

835
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,480
for example, if you have in today's

836
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,480
you remember the police department of the city in New York

837
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,480
and said my husband and my full view

838
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,480
disappeared do something

839
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,480
but for you are entitled to report that story Frank

840
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:57,480
but in a world that's

841
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,480
fraction of anybody's imagination

842
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,480
if it doesn't necessarily mean it's the truth

843
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,480
I think something that Ed Spingon

844
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:06,480
brought up on the program once

845
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:10,480
which I think is very apropos to this

846
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,480
I said that he would make two statements

847
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,480
one of which would be extremely easy to disprove

848
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,480
and the second one would be impossible to disprove

849
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,480
his first statement was that he is a qualified

850
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:25,480
programmer of computing machines

851
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,480
well obviously he could ask him two or three questions

852
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:29,480
if I know he wasn't

853
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,480
but since this is a statement he said it's very easy to disprove

854
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,480
the second statement he said it's impossible to disprove

855
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,480
is that he arrived at the studio tonight

856
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,480
by a flying saucer which landed on the roof

857
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:41,480
of the building he lives in

858
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,480
and let him out

859
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,480
over 1440 Broadway

860
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:46,480
and he came down here

861
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,480
and I disproved that statement

862
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,480
and David Langstapin I said

863
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,480
mid belongs into that lab category

864
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,480
of something recorded that could never be disproved

865
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:58,480
from the front

866
00:53:58,480 --> 00:53:59,480
I'm there about

867
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,480
10 or 20,000 cases

868
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,480
like the Lang case on record

869
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,480
there are many cases of disappearance of course

870
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,480
like what's about for which there is no answer

871
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:11,480
what

872
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:15,480
you know the several cases are reported

873
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:17,480
in the books of the kind of child

874
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,480
child openness or what has to do with it

875
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:20,480
I'm not sorry

876
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,480
the reason I used the David Lang case

877
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,480
was because it was the subject of an intensity

878
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,480
and prolonged official probe

879
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,480
I did everything possible

880
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,480
to find out what happened to this man

881
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,480
and there was no indication whatever

882
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,480
that there was any

883
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:44,480
that there was any unpleasant connotations involved in the story

884
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,480
or that there were any indication that any of these witnesses

885
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,480
were deluded in front of the truth

886
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:51,480
find out

887
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:53,480
that that man just was worth a nil

888
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:55,480
here's another point however

889
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,480
one of the very last paragraph relating to the story

890
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:03,480
tells of the incident of a stranger's disappearance itself

891
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,480
with the experience that happened in the Lang's two years ago

892
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,480
it was about seven months after the vanish

893
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:09,480
and if I may

894
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,480
just the ending of this story

895
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:16,480
David Lang, the children noticed that at the spot where it last been seen

896
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:20,480
there was a circle of stunted yellow grass and 15 feet in diameter

897
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,480
on that evening as they stood beside the circle

898
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:27,480
11 year old Sarah called to their father

899
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,480
and told her astonishment

900
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,480
the youngest man who has heard his voice

901
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,480
calling faintly for help

902
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,480
over and over until it faded away forever

903
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,480
Frank, question one

904
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:41,480
an 11 year old child

905
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,480
had an imagination

906
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:44,480
right?

907
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:45,480
understandable

908
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,480
today children commit to our own with stories sometimes

909
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:49,480
but you just look at them

910
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,480
with their imaginations

911
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,480
with their indisputable imaginations

912
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:54,480
it's true

913
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,480
where is this document that a child told somebody?

914
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,480
but a mother gave the state of Tennessee a sworn statement on that

915
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,480
and she heard the same thing

916
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:03,480
even before that

917
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,480
is an alienist every man and Mrs. Lang?

918
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,480
I don't know that there were any

919
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:09,480
similar things

920
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,480
I think that this is a great tragedy

921
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:16,480
and many times when children make statements

922
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,480
that sound wild or fantastic

923
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,480
and they are laughed at and ignored

924
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,480
and this is a very tragic thing

925
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,480
because children have seen many things

926
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,480
that seemed absolutely impossible

927
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:30,480
I know

928
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,480
sometimes I'm listening to you

929
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:37,480
and your comment was not a comment

930
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,480
the comment that I was saying

931
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:41,480
your comment was a personal comment

932
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,480
and unnecessary

933
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:48,480
and if you like your pipe

934
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,480
so that it can get the smoke coming properly

935
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,480
you might be able to listen to what I'm saying

936
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,480
instead of throwing it off into a personal tangent

937
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,480
and if you heard what I said

938
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,480
I don't know if you heard what you said

939
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,480
but if you comment on what I said

940
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:04,480
not on the condition of my mind

941
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,480
which you can't do anything about

942
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:07,480
what you said Ellery

943
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,480
or what I thought you said

944
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,480
was that it's a shame that we ignore

945
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:16,480
some of the stories of our children

946
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:21,480
and cause we might find a lot of truth in these stories

947
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,480
I saw a ghost

948
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:25,480
I don't want to go to sleep

949
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:27,480
there was a ghost in the room last night

950
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:28,480
don't ignore this child

951
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,480
maybe there was a ghost Ellery

952
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:31,480
but that's the point

953
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:32,480
that I'm not going to say

954
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,480
that I'm not going to say

955
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:36,480
that I'm not going to say that

956
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:38,480
that's why I'm calling it because it's children's statement

957
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:40,480
the point of my statement is

958
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:41,480
quite something else again

959
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:43,480
the point of my statement is that

960
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:45,480
there have been many observations made

961
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:47,480
by children or adults

962
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:48,480
adults

963
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,480
which didn't happen to Jai

964
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,480
with the emotions of the other individuals

965
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,480
and around us surrounding them

966
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,480
and that simple attitude of dismissing a thing

967
00:57:58,480 --> 00:57:59,480
while a child said this

968
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:00,480
a child reported this

969
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,480
this is a very vicious thing

970
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,480
and a very destructive thing

971
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,480
and I say that in essence

972
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,480
the idea of having a lack of respect for a child

973
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:12,480
is an exciting, very degrading thing

974
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,480
to the person who has that lack of respect

975
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:15,480
Ellery

976
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,480
I'm so waiting to have a lack of respect

977
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:20,480
I have an affection for children

978
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:21,480
I love them

979
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:23,480
there is no question about that

980
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:25,480
but please don't dramatize

981
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:26,480
and put up with this

982
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,480
so many observations

983
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:30,480
that it is malicious

984
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:32,480
that it is terrible

985
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:34,480
and one lacks respect for a child

986
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,480
when a child comes in with a childish story

987
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:39,480
and while not hurting a child

988
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:41,480
you're nothing distrustful

989
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:43,480
and you're nothing cruel

990
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:45,480
and you don't accept

991
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:47,480
an imaginative story of a child

992
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:48,480
Ellery

993
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:50,480
please, you're over dramatizing

994
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:52,480
I'm not over dramatizing anything

995
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:54,480
and it's simply the old story

996
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,480
about the peasants who would report to the

997
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:58,480
Lord of the Man of the Rock

998
00:58:58,480 --> 00:58:59,480
fell out of the sky

999
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:01,480
and the Rock was made of metal

1000
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:03,480
and they were laughed at because they were ignorant peasants

1001
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,480
this has been told over and over and over again

1002
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,480
and here the same thing happens with children

1003
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:11,480
children see things that are actually not ever to follow

1004
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:12,480
in what you say

1005
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:15,480
and cause some children may have reported

1006
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:17,480
certain stories which adults disbelieve

1007
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,480
and later was checked to find out

1008
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:20,480
that it was true

1009
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,480
this does not mean that we should create

1010
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:24,480
into everything that children say

1011
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,480
and I exaggerated love and respect for children

1012
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:28,480
or something like that

1013
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,480
they're very complete human beings

1014
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:32,480
I mean why you speak for yourself

1015
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:33,480
I'm not a child

1016
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,480
they're the one who's speaking for you

1017
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:37,480
I would ask Frank

1018
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:39,480
outside of the Frank

1019
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,480
the long story

1020
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,480
of how the story in the book about our woman

1021
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:46,480
whose image appeared

1022
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,480
sort of as a photographic image on the window

1023
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:50,480
of a building

1024
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,480
it seems it happened quite a few times

1025
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:54,480
so could you give us a rundown on that story

1026
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,480
I think I have several of them in the book

1027
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:58,480
I happen to know about one of them

1028
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,480
very well because it happened in the northern Indiana

1029
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:03,480
which comes from my old hometown

1030
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:04,480
down on the river

1031
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,480
on the Ohio River right across from Louisville

1032
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,480
this lady's name was Sharth

1033
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,480
and hundreds and hundreds of people saw this thing

1034
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:13,480
Sharthday after she died

1035
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,480
her picture appeared in the glass

1036
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:18,480
on the window of her home

1037
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:20,480
and it was there

1038
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,480
until sometime after her son arrived

1039
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,480
at a considerable time after her funeral actually

1040
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:30,480
and when the boy, the son, got there

1041
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:33,480
of course he was puzzled by this

1042
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:35,480
like a lot of others

1043
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:37,480
and he rubbed his handkerchief over the thing

1044
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:40,480
and the picture faded out

1045
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,480
whether it faded out instantly or not

1046
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:44,480
I don't know but I mean after he did this

1047
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:46,480
within a very short time after the picture

1048
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:47,480
had faded and was gone

1049
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:50,480
but there were quite a few cases of this type

1050
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,480
in fact there was one right down in Washington DC

1051
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,480
in the book where a picture of a man

1052
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,480
and an older new lady